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As a professional athlete Dani Reyes-Acosta is a powerhouse of knowledge when it comes to responsible outdoor recreation. In this conversation, she shared tons of beginner-friendly knowledge on how to get started hiking, camping, and backcountry adventuring specifically during the snowy months - with gear reccos included.

We also talked about @leavenotracecenter @ski_kind and @recreate.responsibly - plus she shared with us some great tips about getting over our fears of trying something new, and managing discrimination on the trail.

Take a dive into the ins and outs of snow fun, and follow Dani for recurring doses of joy, reflections, and opportunities to take action for the betterment of this world.

Dani Reyes-Acosta (she/her) is a strategist, storyteller, mountain athlete, and advocate based in her van, El Torito Blanco, or on a rural homestead in SW Colorado. With names like Nike, Vail Resorts, the Association of Pro Patrollers, Sport Obermeyer, and Outdoor Research on her client list, she loves driving projects redefining who plays outside and how we build community with others on this planet. As a creative, athlete, and storyteller, her mission is to rewrite her own narrative as well as others do the same.

You can find Dani at…

Instagram: @NotLostJustDiscovering

Website: DaniReyesAcosta.com

LinkedIn: Dani Reyes-Acosta

Newsletter: The Uncommon Send

Yo Alcanzo: #SheSePuede (Latino Outdoors)

La Raiz de Mi Tierra (Elevation Outdoors Magazine)

Women in the Backcountry, Part 1: Why Do Women-Only Spaces Matter?
Backcountry Skiing and Splitboarding: Big Spaces and Bigger Consequences (AdventurePro Magazine)

Resources mentioned in the conversation:

KBYG - Free avalanche-related info

NOAA - For the best weather forecast
GAIA GPS - A great navigation app
More about shoes and snow: greenbelly.co/pages/best-crampons-and-microspikes
Coming soon: packing list of items to bring along on a snow adventure.

Exploring Responsibly is 100% self-funded and generosity-powered. At this time, I am only able to offer each guest the equivalent of a cup of coffee for their time. So please go and check out their work and ways in which you can support them - all relevant links can be found in the show notes. If you want to support this space further you can also become a Patreon at patreon.com/gabaccia .

I once more want to thank you for being here,

Gabaccia

The following conversation transcript was generated using an AI service and with very slight human editing, which means there may be parts that do not make sense, have typos, etc. In the ideal world, we would have all the means to make our transcripts more accessible and completely human-proofed. Coming soon.

TRANSCRIPT

Gabaccia  0:03  

And we are live! Welcome everyone to Episode 3 of Exploring Responsibly, where we are going to be talking about all things winter adventures. I'm Gabaccia your host, my pronouns are she/her/hers, and I am tuning in live from Santa Fe, New Mexico, the land of the Pueblos and the Jicarilla Apache peoples. And today, I'm really excited to have my guest Danny Reyes-Acosta from well, you may also know her from her Instagram handle @notlostjustdiscovering. Dani who's just tuning in right now and I'm gonna get her invited on the scene. Mountain athlete, a powerhouse of an an or an outdoorsy person or our relationships with nature. So welcome in. 

Dani  1:16  

How are you?

Gabaccia  1:18  

I'm doing good. How are you?

Dani  1:21  

I am fantastic. Oh, there's Abby. I know. 

Gabaccia  1:24  

Hi, everyone. 

Dani  1:26  

My gosh. This is exciting.

Gabaccia  1:30  

I know. Thank you so much for joining me here today. I was actually just done introducing myself. So why don't you go ahead and you tell us like who you are? Where you tuning in from? Your pronouns? All that fun stuff?

Dani  1:44  

Yes, absolutely. First, I just want to make sure, can you hear me? Okay, I have a little bit of a static with you. 

Gabaccia  1:51  

Oh, fancy. Yes. I can hear well.

Dani  1:54  

You can hear me? Okay, great! We're good. We're good. All right, I'm jumping in. Um, hello, everyone. And thank you for having me, Gabaccia. And thank you everyone for being here. I'm Danielle Catalina Reyes Acosta, aka Dani. Yep. My pronouns are she/her. I am coming to you from southwest Colorado, and I am not in a van.

Gabaccia  2:31  

You are not in a van. Okay, we're feeling we're gonna get to talk about that a little bit. 

Dani  2:37  

Maybe a little bit.

Gabaccia  2:41  

Well, thank you so much for joining me. I guess I would just like to get started with you telling us just, I guess the short version of the story of your life. Who is Dani? And what's you know, what's her relationship with the outdoors like?

Dani  3:00  

Oh, gosh, well, the book is coming out. I'm just joking. There's no book.

Gabaccia  3:06  

Four hours, the four hours she will be here.

Dani  3:12  

Well tonight, I'm making enchiladas for my friend's birthday. So I know. So I can't stay too long.

Gabaccia  3:19  

So you are the best friend on Earth.

Dani  3:22  

I was supposed to make them honest. But I just don't have time for that. Right.

Gabaccia  3:26  

I'm sorry. I feel I feel that.

Dani  3:29  

Yeah, I didn't have time for that. So we're gonna have, um, Alex de Wallace, which will be really good because we grew everything and our neighbor hunted the game. 

Gabaccia  3:40  

Wow. 

Dani  3:41  

Anyway, so that Dani's present-day like part of the...to the space of I think cultivating but I think you know through the journey of learning about all the different sports I want to get involved in and communities I want to be a part of cultivations definitely always been a part of it. So if I go back in the in a nutshell version is you know, I grew up in Southern California. And you know, where I grew up, like I kind of was just always a part of the outdoors. And I like it because we were, you know, we were very close to, we had the privilege of being at the beach. And I got to go camping like once a year, I think starting in, like seventh No, like I was seven or eight. And I think we got to go skiing a few times, like once or twice a year when I was younger as well. And so in high school, I moved to Fresno, California, where my mother grew up. And I didn't get to do any of the things that I started to learn about when I was a lot younger. But what I did start to learn to embrace suffering, so I started cross country running. It was, it was, it was really tough. Um, and you know, at the time, there was a lot of, there's a lot of family stuff going on. And so I definitely was very distanced from kind of the outdoors, as I know it today. And as I had started to know, when I was younger, and so, I actually only realized I think, like, a month or so ago, that I think a big part of my being outdoors has been not just an attempt to like kind of reclaim, like, who I am or who I want and find out who I want to be. But also, I think, kind of go back to those like days of childhood that I had to grow up really. So. So um, so flash forward to today, I am a professional slip boarder, I'm a big mountain slip border, I am a trad climber, or specifically crack climber, as Johnny reminded me, my partner, which is like very particular, um, and what else I love surfing, I love trail running. And I think you know, to me, I think being outdoors is a way to kind of embrace all of the experiences of who we are as humans, whether that means difficulty, or the joy and the beauty. Sometimes it's healing, sometimes it's sadness, but you Outdoors is all of those things. And I think I'm just trying to see, you know, what I could find when I just keep getting higher into the Alpine. And so what I'm working on this season is really moving into a space of just big mountain split boarding. And it's really exciting and taking the storytelling that I've been doing through writing and you know, this is the second I think third time we've shared the screen, right? 

Gabaccia  7:08  

Yes, I think so. Third!

Dani  7:11  

Third. I know I'm so excited to be a part of. I know well, it's called I don't know, I think we're just doing doing the thing, you know. 

Gabaccia  7:20  

Doing the thing, exactly. No, I agree. It's all 2020, which is crazy, because it feels like it was years ago that we did the the Leave No Trace panel and no those minutes ago.

Dani  7:37  

Yeah. No, that was two months ago. I was in Telluride again.I remember. But yeah, I think it's just my journey. It's just, it's only just beginning. And I'm really excited to be able to share that space with people like you, people like all of our Instagram friends that are jumping on it. 

Gabaccia  7:58  

I know 

Dani  7:59  

They have been here from the beginning, which or even present day so that's me a nutshell. I need to limited my possible. That's what I say.

Gabaccia  8:10  

Good. I love that. Okay, you have to write that down for me so I can make it a quote. I love it.

Dani  8:18  

Oh, I have a brand new website notlostjustdiscovering.com.

Gabaccia  8:23  

Perfect. I gotta go check out the revamped version. I know, it's been under construction for a little bit like.

Dani  8:30  

I know, constantly rebuilding websites.

Gabaccia  8:34  

I know. Congrats. I know how it goes. I I feel like my website always says that it's under construction, because it's never really done. Like I'm always in the back burner, you know, so we're kind of, in a way, always working on it.

Dani  8:48  

Totally.

Gabaccia  8:50  

So before we move into today's topic, which is all winter adventures, I want to ask you what I ask everyone that comes on here with me. Okay, what does exploring responsibly mean to you?

Dani  9:05  

I love this question. And I love this series just so much because I think we've i don't i don't know if I've been privy to know about this from the beginning. But I feel like I've watched you explore how this like, conceptually how this question unfolds. To me, exploring responsibly is moving into spaces that both known and unknown are through a series of actions that I didn't write this down, sorry. There are a series of actions that like enables you and empowers you to kind of be your best self at the same time as honoring and respecting those who came before you and are still there today.

Gabaccia  9:51  

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, there's no wrong answer. Really.

Dani  9:59  

Thank you. I think others, is not just, is not just limited to human beings, right, I think when we talk about the concept of kin, which maybe we'll get into later, all living and nonliving beings in our beautiful earth.

Gabaccia  10:20  

Absolutely. Well, let's get into the meat because I am really interested in all this winter adventuring, which let me tell you, it's new territory for me. I mean, I have lived in upstate New York where it snows half of the year, but that was not my outdoorsy time. So it was not, I was not really out there. But now that I live in New Mexico, you know, closer to home, it’s something that I'm really interested in. So the first thing that I want to ask you is because you mentioned that you are a split boarder. So can you tell us like, what the heck is split boarding?

Dani  11:03  

But yeah, that's a great question. My mom might not even still know the answer. So I'm getting hopefully better at explaining it. So, um, have you heard the term backcountry skiing? 

Gabaccia  11:15  

I have. 

Dani  11:17  

Okay, so, backcountry skiing is in the same way as splitboarding our methods of human powered adventure using skis or snowboard that enable you to go both up and down. Yes.

Gabaccia  11:35  

Sounds easier than what it probably is.

Dani  11:39  

Oh, there's a lot of fitness required.

Gabaccia  11:41  

Up part, especially the up part. This is what I'm really interested about. 

Dani  11:45  

Yeah. That's, that's definitely part of it. It should not be underestimated how heavy your backpacks can be. Um, so yeah. So splitboarding is basically a snowboard that is cut in half. Yes. Noel, we walk up the mountain for sketches. Oh, there you are. Okay. 

Gabaccia  12:15  

No, that was just me talking.

Dani  12:20  

So when there's snowboards cut in half, nowadays, you don't really have to do it by yourself. Unless, unless it's really hard to find so we're hopefully we can get some more cheaper splitboards out into the market. But anyway, um, you kind of if you notice snowboard looks like right, kind of like a I don't know, long cylinder thing. When you cut in half, it slips over it flops over and the...splits. 

Gabaccia  13:01  

Yes, no, but it's good for you to practice. Like if you don't have anything else for your words to describe this. Let's see how. 

Dani  13:11  

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's so it's, it's a way to walk up. And then when you come down, it just looks like a regular snowboard.

Gabaccia  13:21  

Cool. So but these are specifically made for basically back country like splitboarding is basically backcountry snowboarding.

Dani  13:30  

Correct! Yes. 

Gabaccia  13:32  

Okay. Nice. 

Dani  13:33  

Yes. Yeah, I should say to like, it's like if you really want to play semantics, it can be a it's like a subset of backcountry snowboarding, because you can also backcountry snowboard with just by boot packing, which is but just by walking in your boots. And I've done that you can also be a backcountry snowboarder through snowshoes. I've also done that. Um, I mean, this is my personal progression to getting a slip board because they are expensive. 

Gabaccia  14:02  

Right? 

Dani  14:03  

And walking is cheaper.

Gabaccia  14:09  

Right like if you're already a snowboarder, you have your snowboard, but that doesn't mean precisely that you're just going to go by a split board. So that makes sense.

Dani  14:18  

Yeah, I mean, it can be for some people but um, you know, there's there are a lot of great companies that offer demos for very cheap or free prices. Like if you do avalanche education. For example, like backcountry braids, is doing a series out in Breckenridge, like over three weekends this next winter or this winter. And like you can get a free slip board just when you take your avi class. I mean, you don't get to keep it, it's just for the class.

Gabaccia  14:48  

Right, right. Yeah, but that's that's a good way to get introduced to it I guess without investing in like a new one.

Dani  14:55  

Totally, I like it.

Gabaccia  14:58  

It's hard to get a split.

Dani  15:00  

Yeah, I sold my soul just joking. That's not true. No, I mean, when I took my avi class, I rented a slip board. And, and I didn't actually own a split board for a full season until after that, and I didn't have a full kit until like, two years later after my MBA class. Yeah. 

Gabaccia  15:23  

Wow.

Dani  15:24  

 I do a lot of snowshoeing. 

Gabaccia  15:27  

Is the split board like an easier method? Or what is the, I guess like, how does it compare to just going on with snowshoes or boots?

Dani  15:37  

Um, it's, it's a lot easier. It's a lot more, well, I shouldn't say easier. It's more efficient.

Gabaccia  15:41  

That makes sense. 

Dani  15:47  

Yeah. So when it's, it's just, you know, I think, depend upon what your budget is, and what your interest level is. And, like, maybe it's accessible for you to just buy a split board. But for some people, it's not like, for me, it wasn't. But, you know, I sold my snowshoes last year, and I kind of wish I didn't now.

Gabaccia  16:13  

Yeah, I can. Yeah, I can relate this to some of those gear items that you think I'm not gonna longer use. And then you're like, no I would have used them anyway. 

Dani  16:26  

Totally.

Gabaccia  16:27  

Thank you so much for sharing about splitboarding. I was actually talking about it with my boyfriend before we hopped on and I was telling him like you're a splitboarder. Like, what's that? I was like, I'm pretty sure it's like that backcountry snowboarding. So sorry. 

Dani  16:41  

Yeah totally. 

Gabaccia  16:44  

Dave had just gathered from what you share pretty much. So you know, you've done a good job of explaining it, I guess just overall, in your in your day to day Instagram communications, at least.

Dani  16:54  

I'll work on getting better. Thank you.

Gabaccia  16:58  

Cool, happy to help. So winter adventuring, I think I have a couple of questions just like personally, that I'm, I'm interested to hear your opinion, just from the hiking perspective. So I love to hike. I went on my first solo hike in an area that was partially snowed or maybe had well, it wasn't like snowing at that time, you can tell it's not a couple of days before. And it was like, at some point, it got it got to a place where I was just happy that I brought my hiking poles and that my boots are waterproof and whatnot, you know, because I got points where the snow was really fluffy. But then I also got to those spots where it was icy and scary to be on a downhill with, you know, it almost felt like at some point, I probably had to ski down the hill, it would have been better. Yeah, so what what are some of like, your most basic recommendations for, you know, everyday hikers that maybe are going on their first hike with the Swiss? 

Dani  18:03  

Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. Um, so you can buy something called cat tracks. Um, they're very accessible price. It's like $20 at REI. And they're literally cat-like, you know,"meow" tracks. You know, like cat tracks, you know?

Gabaccia  18:23  

And you put them on your boots?

Dani  18:25  

Yeah, you put them on the bottom of the shoes, and they have little spiky kind of things. And so that is way cheaper than snow shoes. It's like very small to carry in your pocket or your backpack. Um, and so snowshoes, like so that's something I think everybody should have. I mean, I should have them. I lost mine. I need to buy them. Because, honestly, like, it becomes when snow trails become compacted, you can go climbing, our climbing, like running, or hiking on just trails that are like for hiking with that have snow on them if you have your tracks with you, but you wouldn't want to wear snow shoes because snow shoes, like are much larger and so shoes are going to um, okay.

Gabaccia  19:16  

We'll get to that in a second.

Dani  19:19  

Yeah, so take So, so get cat tracks, but snowshoes are nice to have if you're going on a trail that is not compacted and are not yems. And also if it's not, um, like if it's very if it's fluffy, like if it's powder snow. So yeah.

Gabaccia  19:38  

So snow shoes are for when when it just snowed and you're going out there. 

Dani  19:44  

Yeah, for the most part. 

Gabaccia  19:45  

Or when you know, there's like, is there like a like a foot of snow or half foot or what's the what's the measurement for the snowshoe.

Dani  19:53  

It doesn't really matter the depth but if it's fresh, and you so imagine like remember basic physics. Right, like, or I think this is physics, right? Like, if you're like, sure, sure. I'll show you to give you a visual demonstration. Here's my yoga block. Here's my foot, right? Like if you're if you if this represents No, right, right? And if I step on a fresh snow with just my foot pushes it down. Hmm.

Gabaccia  20:21  

Right? Because it goes all the weight is on this small area.

Dani  20:25  

Right? But if I use a big, large snowshoe, then it spans the area and I don't sink.

Gabaccia  20:43  

Cool. So basically, that's, that's the main difference. And then the little what would they call the cat claws? Cat...

Dani  20:54  

Tracks, like...

Gabaccia  20:55  

Cat tracks! The cat tracks will be more like something that you carry in your backpack. And if you're going through a sketchy area, you put those on, then you take them off? Or do you put them on for the entire hike? 

Dani  21:07  

I mean, you can do both.

Gabaccia  21:09  

Will they will they get messed up if there's no snow on the ground? For example?

Dani  21:13  

Ah, it depends upon the surface. So if it's very rocky, maybe but if it's mostly snow, you should be fine. Yeah, the most important thing to do actually is really just kind of look right, so like look at the surface that you're walking on. And like even touch it like if it feels icy put on cat tracks. There are also other kinds of tracks that have like more like metal in them. And those are for when it's like very icy. Mm. And then the snow shoe is for when the snow is fluffy.

Gabaccia  21:53  

Cool. Cool. I think that answer not just my questions. What other questions do I see that Michelle says she's going to her first hike to well, a little bit peak so she's excited but nervous. Well, now you know, get those cat tracks or, or snowshoes depending on what day you're going and how how much snow you're out there.

Dani  22:17  

I mean, you can even work cat tracks in your driveway when it's icy. or walking down the street. Like it's it's good.

Gabaccia  22:27  

Yeah I have a downhill here that Yeah, probably, like save me some salt if I just get the cat tracks. So yeah, if we're if we're going hiking in the snow, what are some specific considerations? When we talk about for example, leave no trace, like, can we act as usual? Like, can we still do a capital Like what? What are some of those specific things perhaps that in this snow, we're different differently.

Dani  23:04  

Yeah, sorry. I'm just waving at people that are waving at me. So I just want to acknowledge their wave. 

Gabaccia  23:11  

Like real waves here.

Dani  23:13  

I know. I don't know which button to push because I don't know maybe I'm old.

Gabaccia  23:19  

No, you're fine. 

Dani  23:21  

Um, so one of the things that I see most commonly and this is honestly winter and and summer and non winter, but unfortunately is kind of dog dog pet bags, dog poop bags. And so something that's really important to remember with all leave no trace is to just take the bags with you see, don't buy or degrade and especially in the snow. They look very gross on top of the snow.

Gabaccia  23:56  

Yeah, I am. Okay. And tell me about this because of many several times I've seen people leaving their poopy bags and saying, oh, I'm gonna come back and get it. 

Dani  24:10  

No. No, actually Sofia who's also here had to stop me one time for picking up someone else's poop. I knew I mean, the thing is, is you have to take it with you otherwise we forget it. So the thing to do is like cat you know and carry an old empty tupperware is really nice. Like a you know, an old like a salsa container or hummus thing I don't know depends on how much poop your dog makes. But you can put the little bag inside of the Tupperware container and then it won't get squished.

Gabaccia  24:49  

Ah, it will probably keep the scent in there too. So you can safely put it in in your outdoor well. Well I feel like you will put it in your outer pocket like in your mesh pocket of your back.

Dani  25:07  

And yeah, that's that's, I mean, the rule of thumb to be honest, like, I think we maybe sometimes we start our hikes a little bit grumpy and then or I don't know if like we do we do we forget how much joy we have when we go hiking. Because, like, I always forget to do stuff. I'm like, Oh, I want to look at that tree on the way back and then I forget. So like we did we have to take these things with us now. Like, think of it like it's like.

Gabaccia  25:35  

Like trusting our memories and ourselves to go back and pick up. Yeah, like right now. 

Dani  25:55  

Yeah. Like my role in this especially applies to like, climbing helmets or skiing helmets. If I'm like, oh, should put my helmet on. Yes, I should put my helmet on right now. Or like, Oh, I should pick up the dog poo.Yes, do it because I will. This I forget. Yeah. Anyway, we're talking about dogs. Um, what else about it? Um, I mean, same, same thing for us about cat holes. If there's a restroom at the trailhead, use it. And you know, really, like try to go to the bathroom before you go to the trailhead if you can, because depending upon snow conditions, some restrooms might not get service and a lot of trailheads like for example, trail, snow parks in California, a lot of them don't have bathrooms, right. So like, go prepared. And part of that preparing is like either using the meant using the facilities before or taking a wag bag. And so you can make a wag bag very easily. There are directions online, it's kitty litter and plastic bag and, you know, a paper bag, or you can buy them at REI. Um, let's see what else what else what other LNT things. I mean...

Gabaccia  27:18  

So would you say like once you know you're going on like a true winter hike, like definitely bring a wag bag, don't count on digging a cat hole at all?

Dani  27:27  

Yeah, for the most part. It's it's, yeah, for the most part. And I think with most winter recreation, that is the responsible thing to do. Because this is a year where I think we see a lot of people are going to be going out into play, right? Because we can't go to restaurants and we can't go to bars and movie theaters and gyms. And so we want to go outside. So the thing to remember is that like, if just one person does it, like impact that times 1000. So, bring wag bags, take your poop. Oh, I like this. We're getting more questions. 

Gabaccia  28:11  

Yes. I know we're getting some good questions that we'll get to once we're past the technical parts because I feel like all these all this more existential questions are important. Super important. But I definitely want to cover the the basics part. So. Okay, so those are great considerations for hiking. Now how about for actual camping, whether front country or back country? Are there like main differences? Are there what are what are the main considerations? And let's let's do a basic beginner level of, you know, first time out there camping in the snow.

Dani  28:55  

Oh, I mean, first time camping in the snow I'd say go with go with a guided group. Because when you don't, it can be a lot of unpleasant suffering. I'm just being honest. Um, and there are a lot of programs that make this these types of adventures really accessible. Like a someone. I think it was Cat earlier to ask, like, this question about trying new things. I remember years ago, before I got into the backcountry, I had all these ideas about going to the Basque Country. I was like, I'm gonna go make an igloo. I'm going to stay there. And then I'm gonna go skiing everywhere. And like, this is like many years later, and I still haven't made an igloo to go live in and ski. You know, like, it just hasn't happened yet. I've taken a tent. 

Gabaccia  29:46  

Okay, it doesn't sound like it's an easy task, either. 

Dani  29:52  

It's not.

Gabaccia  29:54  

And you're grabbing ice, right? You're grabbing?

Dani  29:59  

Well, you need gloves. 

Gabaccia  30:00  

Well, yeah, but it's still like, well, I guess I've never I've never worn gloves that could truly keep me warm. So that to me, is the hand warmers are my best friends, because that's the only way I survived. 

Dani  30:14  

Yeah, um I mean, I think going back to your question about still camping specifically during the winter, so we're not talking about desert camping or anywhere without snow. Um, and if, if this is the first time you're really thinking about doing it, I would say, like, look up some local groups in the area that may be doing something like that, and see if there is an event that you can go to, because those do exist. Um, if you don't have the luxury of having a group locally, or it's not accessible for you, then I would say, you know, do things to make sure you're just going to be safe and warm. And for your first adventure, like stay kind of close to the front country. And by that, I mean, stay either within cell phone reception, or within like, like not more than a couple of miles away from a trailhead, so that if something happens, you can get out because the gear that you need in the winter is multiplied heavily by the type of gear you need in the in any other season just because you have to stay warm. But here's a fun tip. You can dry your socks by sticking them on your thighs in your sleeping bag and bring more than two socks. Okay, that's my -- 

Gabaccia  31:33  

Definitely bring more than two socks even if it's not winter. 

Dani  31:38  

Yeah.

Gabaccia  31:41  

What was that you put your socks on your?

Dani  31:46  

Thighs. Like when you're sleeping in your sleeping bag. Put the because your socks will get wet. Like even if you have Yeah, even if you have waterproof boots, your socks will get wet. So put your socks on your thighs like put any wet clothes actually like in your sleeping bag and in the morning. It should be dry it's going to smell but it should be dry.

Gabaccia  32:18  

My yeah, my only camping in this snow was it wasn't supposed to snow and then welcome in Yosemite and everything was white and it was fabulous. I mean, I loved it. But yeah, yeah. Jeez, breaking down camp when you don't have the like hand gear for it. In the cold. Oh gosh. Yeah, that was rough.

Dani  32:43  

I mean, that so that goes along to I think with the sock thing is like multiple gloves. Right. Um, like you want to have a glove to be in the snow with you want to have a liner glove. And then you want to have just an extra glove so like if I am going to go like if I go on a hot trip I take two pairs of gloves when I've gone snow camping I take three because there's not necessarily a way to a fire when you are snow camping. And so you'll have to rely on your body's warmth to keep everything else like warming up or or just like not staying as wet. And then Javier actually had a really good point of putting like hot water in your Nalgene. So like another half to stay warm is at night like I use my jet boil or little stove and then fill up my water bottles with like hot water and then put it in my sleeping bag. So that does two things that means as a warmer when I sleep and then be I have like water to drink in the morning. So sometimes if you have a, like your water will freeze. So,

Gabaccia  34:01  

Nothing as fun as that is like

Dani  34:05  

Yeah, yeah, so the thing is, is like, like in the winter, or I'm sorry, in when it's not winter, we can use like a dromedary or a big bladder of water. And that will let us carry like up to 10 litres of water and and not worry about freezing but that water will freeze in the winter. And so in the winter, you have to melt snow. So like yeah, like Holly said, just put what like boil some water, put in your Nalgene. Go to sleep with it. And then in the morning, you can re-boil that and you just like add more snow and always scrape the top layer off the snow and then get the stuff underneath.

Gabaccia  34:47  

Just don't use the top layer of the snow.

Dani  34:50  

Yeah, don't don't use that. And then let's see what else um, you know, I think planning ahead is a super super, super important thing. To remember, if you're gonna go winter camping, obviously, like you, you want to look at the weather. And so I use NOAA, which is I'm going to type that in. So that's National Oceanic administration, wait, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. And so you just Google NOAA, and where it is you're going, like NOAA and the mountain or NOAA and like the general area, and you'll have a really good weather forecast. Better than weather.com. So look at that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you want to look at your weather. And if there's any chance of precipitation, you really want to make sure you have all of the right things like multiple puppys, synthetic, and down, possibly a rain jacket, if you're somewhere that's going to get warm. And of course, like avalanche conditions, so that is a whole other can of worms.

Gabaccia  36:00  

Yeah.

Dani  36:03  

Are we going there next?

Gabaccia  36:05  

We can go there. If yeah, if you're up for it? 

Dani  36:09  

Um, I mean, I think so. I would say like along in the, the hand, like hand in hand with the one on one winter camping is go to kbyg.org. Kp Why? I'm trying to take this in. My only person who has a hard time typing talking?

Gabaccia  36:32  

No, I would say Instagram doesn't make it very friendly. So no worries.

Dani  36:37  

You're like, Um, so yeah, so kbyg.org. is, stands for no before you go. And they have a ton a ton a ton of material around backcountry safety, and avalanche awareness that is all free, completely free, totally free. The website is managed, and contributed to by avalanche centers around the United States. So you can also go to this website and find out your local avalanche center if you want to learn about avalanche conditions in your area. And then yeah, they just have a ton of great information. I'd say to like, if it's your first winter camping, again, going, I really try and go with the group. And if you're not going, if you don't, then I really want to stay safe. 

Gabaccia  37:42  

Absolutely. So I mean, 

Dani  37:44  

You don't want to go extreme.

Gabaccia  37:46  

Absolutely not. So top recommendation would be go with a group of people, preferably with people that have done it before and that are, you know, savvy about like the specifics of being out there in the snow. But then if you don't have like access to a group or don't feel comfortable or whatever, it's okay to go but making sure that you plan ahead appropriately, and that at least you know that you're not going into an avalanche area and that you've been stay close to a trail head. And, you know, basically, I don't know what what would you say is like, if I consider my non winter outdoor skills, this, let's say at 70%, you know, that's like my best. If I'm going into know, like, how much less of that percentage that will be like, Am I at 20%? Am I a 10%? What do you think, in your opinion?

Dani  38:46  

Um, I mean, you know, it's tough because it's transferable. I think a lot of the basic survival skills, it's just, you know, know that it's going to be cold. It might be a little bit uncomfortable, and you know, embrace this opportunity to build resilience.

Gabaccia  39:08  

Oh yeah.

Dani  39:08  

I call this building resilience. Yay, winter sports!

Gabaccia  39:13  

So, what are the biggest differences, like when you're just there and it's cold, and it's dry? versus For example, when you're stuck in a rainstorm versus like snow? Right.

Dani  39:27  

Yeah. You know, I do think the thing is, like, so you had mentioned going to Yosemite and it snowed? Like, that's a great opportunity. Like, think about visiting your national parks, right. Um, and using one of their campsites to try out your winter camping because I think just like any, any outdoor skills, I want to think about, like, how am I building my skills as a progression? So, you know, if you throw yourself into the deep end and say, Okay, I'm going to go trust me because I've done this and it was, maybe not smartest thing. Thankfully, I had friends who were much more well versed in these things, but if you go like way far out, and you're not prepared, it's it can really just go very bad very quickly. And like I said, like, luckily I was prepared and had good friends that made sure my game was dialed but yeah, you just step by step like winter camping can be really awesome. Just keep moving. And I prefer inflatable sleeping pads. Actually, I do two. I use a yoga mat, and then an inflatable sleeping pad on top of it, because I think it's really nice and you're in spring like it's sunny. You can take your yoga mat.

Gabaccia  40:56  

Okay, wait is this backcountry? You take your yoga mat into the bathroom?

Dani  41:01  

I take my yoga mat everywhere.

Gabaccia  41:04  

Good for you. Yeah, that's awesome. I have a really light one but haven't taken it. I normally just say yoga on the rocks. Or on the -- 

Dani  41:18  

No, that's good. No, that's good. I just I just used that as my sleeping pad because it just makes it easy. And yes, I always wear a hat. Nice. would take beanies. Oh, um, I can I can plug an artist, I can drop a link in winter, like sports? 

Gabaccia  41:40  

Oh, yeah. That would be fabulous. 

Dani  41:42  

Yeah. And to hobbyists' questions about sleeping with a hat. Here's a story. I have done winter sports. And I think like part of it is living in a van for like for these past few winters and traveling and living in houses without heating for so long. Now I can't sleep without a beanie. It's really weird. 

Gabaccia  42:08  

Oh, it's just it's just like your teddy bear. But like...

Dani  42:11  

It's like always on my head at night. So yeah, we're Yeah, beanies are good. And yeah, then a baseball cap for regular daytime. Thinking, thinking about what else? Other LNT things for camping. So, obviously, disposing of your waste is super important. We already talked about that. Wildlife is typically not as much of an issue because the bears are hopefully sleeping. Hopefully, um, but this is something to keep in mind. Like in winter, I'm sorry, when spring rolls around. So when spring starts coming around, right in will start waking up. And so just being conscious of like, what's going on. And the way you can keep track of that is by looking at your local ranger stations, news bulletin, checking on the Forest Service website. And then you know, I think like when we we gotten this question earlier, like, you know, go into the spaces, like, with a group or on our own, like, invariably, we are probably going to be around other people. And so we just want to be cognizant of no matter how experienced we are thinking about being like kind to other people who also maybe figuring it out or mean no more than us. And so I think there's, it's really important to, like, just be courteous, courteous, and say, Hi, how's it going? You know, if someone needs help, yeah, like, offer them some help. But like, you know, never never assume anything about anyone. Um, and I think also to just like, yeah, just be just be nice, you know, follow the golden rule because creating spaces where everyone feels welcome is is important.

Gabaccia  44:10  

Absolutely. Is this is this a perfect segue into talking about ski kind?

Dani  44:16  

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the ski bonus, I'm full disclosure, I just got this got put on my radar by some friends who are working with the winter wildlands alliance. The ski kind and then recreate responsibly, which is an organization I am a part of are both organizations that are really trying to support everyone's journey in the backcountry. And actually just in general, kind, specifically backward country, but recreate responsibly is all outdoors. Yeah, and maybe. Does everyone know the differences between backcountry and front country? We should probably...

Gabaccia  45:00  

Maybe let's just talk about that. Yeah.

Dani  45:02  

Really quick, I don't see any hands, just raise your hand if you know the difference.

Gabaccia  45:08  

You know what? Instagram has a great, I figured this out after so many lives, the delay between the time people put in a comment to the person speaking to see it's like a five minute delay. Oh, it's crazy. It's It's It's long. So what was it? Go for it? And you can tell us a little one on one front and back country?

Dani  45:30  

Yeah, I'll give you I'll give you the one on one. And then if anyone has anything to add, please just drop it in there. But yeah, so backcountry, recreation is typically recreation that's within cellphone reception, or within ready access from a populated area. So back country is the opposite. There is it's remote. It's typically less traveled. And there is definitely no cell phone reception. And, you know, I think I went to recreation and kind of have to assume that both front kind of like foreign country is a kind of backcountry, it just gives us the illusion of, of feeling like we're because maybe we have cell phone reception that it things are safer. They are not. Um, yeah. You know, and, and I think like, one of the things like I've seen for myself and with friends and, you know, strangers to is, I think, just this perception of, of not realizing that, just because we're like five minutes from, I don't know, McDonald's. Like that it's safe. And it's Yeah, we just have to be cognizant of that. So, anyway, so I think this, I think this ski kind principles, and it fit fit into both both spaces. And yes, he kinda was just created to be kind of a responsibility code, as it were, for anyone going out to play in the snow. And I think when they say play, they don't just mean skiing or snowboarding. I think they also mean you know, sledding, hiking, or snowmobiling, and...

Gabaccia  47:27  

Snow fighting? 

Dani  47:29  

Yes, snow fighting. You know, we've already talked, looking over our over our principles really simple really quickly there, we've kind of covered all of them, you know, skeeto trace, ski self reliant and against self reliance is just having everything that you need. Maybe sometimes more, being inclusive and creating welcoming spaces, being aware of conditions. So something to remember that I think a lot of people don't know is that, um, conditions in the mountains can change very quickly. So it's really important to have your an idea in your head of the weather forecast. But you also want to be prepared with like different, like, you always want to have a down puppy. You always want to have a wag bag, or a small first aid kit, you always want to have water and a fire starter and some bandages. So yeah, just like being aware of like, what can happen and be prepared if anything does happen. I think being respectful of signage is super important, right? Like, anytime, like, especially if you're leaving a resort boundary, or what happens a lot in winter is property boundaries get covered up by snow. So when you're wandering around, like, if you are wandering around, try to just be aware of if you're going on to private property, because that can be a no no. And then skiing smart, which is I think really about being aware of like, you know, how, like your skill level in the context of, of where you're applying it. So sometimes I think I'd reference getting in over your head earlier. And yeah, just want you to just be like, Can I do this? Is this within my reach? And if not, you know, coming into this is a long, good question. Sorry, got distracted, getting ready to handle that. And then yes, in kind it's just I know this may be oversimplifying things, but just being kind to others is a super important part of skiing and the way to have it really fun, make it really fun.

Gabaccia  49:43  

I seriously that's what I appreciated the most about that initiative when when I like I came across it that it was called ski kind because this idea of you know, being kind to yourselves being kind to everyone else that will that is there will be there. And then also being kind to the land and the animals that call it home.

Dani  50:03  

Totally. Yeah. And like one of the things I think a lot of us get wrapped up in, like myself included is this idea of, like, when we go back country skiing, that I have to achieve an objective, because I'm here or like I took the time off of work or what have you. And, you know, a big part of being kind to yourself can also save your life. Right? So like, if your body's not feeling it, if someone else in the group isn't isn't game for it, for whatever reason, if the conditions aren't good, like, really just, like taking that moment to be mindful of what's, what's going on. We're gonna get a lot of big gear baited questions. I like it. I'm sorry. Um, so yeah. 

Gabaccia  50:50  

Go for it. We're gonna answer more questions. I think they're great questions. Do you carry a recommend carrying a Thermarest pad in winter? I have heard people carry them in case you have someone heard they can sit on them and not freeze.

Dani  51:04  

Yes, that is true. Um, in general, like in backcountry skiing. I do not carry at the thermarest pad every single day. But I do carry puffy jackets. And I usually carry a synthetic and a down puppy. So if I was going on a longer trip, like a hut trip, maybe I would carry that there or not. Maybe I would definitely carry it. Sorry. for hiking, I would definitely carry it. I think hiking because it's nice to just see. There's really not too much sitting. Something else remembers that you can sit on your backpack. That's a great place to sit. That's like the number one place to sit.

Gabaccia  52:00  

Yeah makes sense.

Dani  52:02  

Yeah, right. Maps or GPS apps. I really liked the Gaia GPS app in the past. If it's been really good to me to have for backcountry. You are welcome, Jack. Sit on that backpack. It's squishy. Yeah, Gaia GPS has a snow angle shooting on it. I do not use all trails and winter, I do not use Alltrails. And I do not use the hiking project or any of the those other apps because it's just not doesn't have enough information. And in the winter, the map apps need to have topographical information.

Gabaccia  53:03  

So even the total maps of All trails wouldn't really cut it for winter.

Dani  53:10  

Um, I just have not had great success with it.

Gabaccia  53:17  

So yeah, so you basically wintertime comes around. I mean, I I have many. Yeah, questionable experiences with Alltrails. Anyway, which, you know, makes me feel like why do I really have this app? But anyway, I kind of already know that. Yeah, if it says nine miles, it's probably 12. It's fine, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So come wintertime. You just go into Gaia GPS.

Dani  53:42  

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Because I think something like Alltrails gives us that like illusion of security that you know exactly where you're going. And like that is really just not the case.

Gabaccia  53:57  

Well, yeah, if sometimes the trail isn't really there, where it's on the map, when it's not snow, I can only imagine if it's not snow. 

Dani  54:06  

Right. Yeah, like learning learning how to get snowed. Right. Well, and actually, I think to add on to this question, it's really important to just know how to read a regular map and to have paper maps. Paper maps are so great for when you're going to new space where you really want like, I mean, we can't ever rely on our phones working like in the winter. Batteries die really quickly. Yeah, like very quickly unless you are actively trying to keep it warm. And once that battery's gone, like if you're relying on that you, bye. 

Gabaccia  54:43  

Have you ever used like an actual GPS device? Those batteries last longer?

Dani  54:49  

Oh, no, I have not and I will update you when I get access to one. I have not used coat rack.

Gabaccia  55:16  

Good. Now all these things are, I think super helpful. Thank you so much, Dani for that. Before we start wrapping up, I want to get to some of the other questions, folks throughout that are more on the I call it the existential side of things. The first question that came up was, how can one manage discrimination at the trailhead? Especially, you know, as, obviously, as people of color, we tend to experience that.

Dani  55:49  

Yeah, that is such a great question. And it's so loaded. So, you know, I speak from a perspective of someone who I think, like, I've really, I've, I've had the privilege of being in and around ski communities for a while. And so I have learned to code-switch. Does anyone know what that means? Which is kind of like adopting mannerisms and language that helps you blend in more. So that said, I started to get rid of my coaching. Because now I'm just like, this is me. 

Gabaccia  56:40  

It's a whole it's harder to get rid of it than it was to get it. Right?

Dani  56:44  

Yeah, um, you know, I think it you know, another part of that, that privilege of like, being in these spaces is that I haven't, haven't really ever gone into be a big winter hiker, like, a lot of the skiing I've done has been, you know, in the formative part of my like, years, and these years continue, please believe me, like I've listened 10 years, and it's not over, it's not over, this is a very early journey. Um, you know, I don't go to crowded trailheads. Because that has never been an experience that I've saw, like, to me, part of being in the backcountry is being or even in the front country is trying to be in a space where, like, I am out there learning something for the day or healing or whatever. And oftentimes, like, I mean, maybe I just have social anxiety, I don't know. So, um, I haven't I don't, I don't know that I've directly had anything said to me, I think that I probably had more microaggressions in the past. And, like, those don't usually happen at the trailhead, those usually happen. Like on a ski hill, or, you know, out touring, and the way that I deal with those is, I just don't tour with those people anymore. Um, unfortunately, like, I it's not my job, and it's not anyone else's job to, you know, convince pure strangers, and like, how to treat them. So typically, if someone says something to me, or if someone was thinking of like, in the hypothetical scenario, or someone said something snarky, I would probably just tell them, I don't know. I mean, I guess it would depend upon what the context right like,

Gabaccia  58:46  

Right.

Dani  58:48  

I had an I've never like, I've been getting the question like, Where are you from? for like, many years, so long, that like, at this point, I'm just like, I live here. My answer is just I live here. So

Gabaccia  59:01  

I'm right. Because that question, what what are they really getting at? The list of your DNA composition or what?

Dani  59:11  

Yeah. And so a lot of times to what I've discovered, when I like lived in ski towns is that oftentimes the people that are asking these questions are, I mean, if they're locals, that's one thing. I think like a lot of times tourists are asking these questions, which is like, I just say, I live here and then then the conversation is done. I haven't ever had any interactions with law enforcement. Okay, I lied. That's not true. But it's not the kind of law enforcement you're thinking. So snowplows, I don't know if they're law enforcement. They're like, what are you doing? Get out of here?

Gabaccia  59:56  

Yeah, okay. 

Dani  59:58  

Um, yeah, you know, think like, as far as as far as like law enforcement goes, you know, just obeying the rules about parking is super important. You know, a lot of towns like tell you very specifically like, don't park on this side of the street because there's plowing, or like if, if a trailhead is overcrowded, you know, go to a different trailhead. Um, and, yeah, it's, it's pretty easy to, to, I think, like, obey parking rules. And yeah, I feel like Josh has a story to tell me some time, but maybe not today. I hope that helps. I say like, just shine it on and say, please, thank you, I live here or tell them the simple truth. And you know, oftentimes just save your energy for your adventure. Because I think expending energy on these types of conversations can be, it's not constructive for you. And unfortunately, it really ends up like it. Having those kinds of conversations hurts me more than the other person, even if I'm trying to educate them. So just smile, nod and carry on your way.

Gabaccia  1:01:15  

Absolutely. Um, so the other question that we had was, how do you manage fear and hesitation of trying something new?

Dani  1:01:27  

Oh, that's a good question. Um, so I think a couple things. So I'll I really try and build a community around me of people that are interested in the same things. And, or, maybe are slightly better than me, or much better. You're welcome. How are you? Um, but, you know, like, I think trying to be the only person sometimes that's doing these things in your group of friends, makes it really, really hard. Because these some of these things like are scary, and it's cold, and you're like, what am I doing, and they're so much more fun with friends. Um, and so, yeah, like finding, finding friends to go do these things with is a great way to just start building your confidence. And the, if you are based in a rural or rural, if you're based in a non mountain town, and need to visit like finding Facebook groups that have these interests, like hiking, or like outdoor groups, or backcountry groups, like a lot of these groups, do meetups, and so you can go to these meetups, or just connect with people one on one. And yeah, it's just start building your community people to validate, like your excitement about doing something. And so what I think about this is my tool, I don't focus on the fear. I focus on the excitement and the energy and the Stoke, and then I think about the ways to build in the work to keep that momentum building. And then another way, of course, is making good playlists.

Gabaccia  1:03:10  

Oh, yes, really outline? How much of a role does it play for you to be, for example, trained in wilderness first aid or avalanche? In in terms of, you know, get in in terms of building up that confidence?

Dani  1:03:34  

Yeah, you know, knowledge is power. And I think anytime we acquire knowledge, we are building up our own, kind of, like, internal fire to go do something, right. Like, if you're just like, so, um, I just wrote an another article that I will give you later. about, like, the ways that we can build our knowledge bases that are, in addition to formal coursework. So we already mentioned, kbyg.org, that's a great place to start. There are so many like, you can download books, using your like, local local library card, and the Libby app and for free and you can, you know, acquire knowledge that way, there are so many podcasts that are just great to like, start to hear the lingo. Because I think anytime you go into space, no matter who you are, and you don't know anything about like, the lingo, the environment, the snow, you know, I think to build competence in an area of, of any skill, right? Like in this case, we're talking about backcountry travel, you want to think about like, you're creating awareness of the things that you need to learn. Right. So that's your formal education and then moving up to this space where you can finally develop some income Intuition around, like moving through there. But, I mean, trust me anyone here who has imposter syndrome Congratulations. You are not a narcissist like a clinically diagnosed nurses. Those are the only people that don't get imposter syndrome. Everybody has imposter syndrome. I have impostor syndrome. 

Gabaccia  1:05:37  

Yes, exactly. Like you said, we're not. We're not we're the opposite of the Narcissus right lady.

Dani  1:05:45  

We're human, oh. 

Gabaccia  1:05:59  

You know it's just part of it. I want to thank you so much Dani for being here with me today and for coming back next week for the Spanish spin on this. So I'm super excited about it too. 

Dani  1:06:13  

We go Spanish too.

Gabaccia  1:06:16  

So before I say officially goodbye to you, do you have any upcoming projects that you're really excited about or anything you want to share with? Are we back yet?

Dani  1:06:40  

Yes, we're back. 

Gabaccia  1:06:41  

Okay, awesome. So where did you left me? 

Dani  1:06:44  

Oh, you were asking me about upcoming projects.

Gabaccia  1:06:47  

Yes, I just want to share anything that's coming up or anything that you, you know that we need everyone here self about?

Dani  1:06:56  

Yeah, absolutely. So I have a series that's written. Obviously, I'm a woman. Well, not obviously, I'm a woman in the backcountry. And I wrote, I'm writing a series of articles for outdoor curling call targeting women in that country. But, um, a lot of the information is really applicable to any gender. But I just wanted to make it like specifically for women. There's a lot of great information that people outside of the women gender, I think can also find valuable. So that's just on dirtbagdreams.com. Also, I have a newsletter that I am getting better at sending out. That's called Uncommon Send. I think you have links to that in social and then. Yeah, I'm just super excited for the snow to start falling because I have a couple of film projects I'm working on. Yes, yes. It's really exciting. 

Gabaccia  1:07:57  

Oh, that's so fun! I can't wait. 

Dani  1:08:01  

Yep, yep. So yeah, and then I have a big tick list of things to ski in Colorado and the Tetons, and some of them will be on film. So that's exciting. 

Gabaccia  1:08:14  

Oh, that's gonna be fabulous. I can't wait for that. And in the meantime, I think everyone can just go to @notlostjustdiscovering and just follow along on Dani's adventures and she's great at not just you know, showing of this epic places that she gets to human powered arrive at but also she's, she's great for just food for thought and to and amplifying other voices that are also doing great work for diversity, equity and inclusion in the outdoor space. So thanks, Dani.

Dani  1:08:52  

Thank you.

Gabaccia  1:08:57  

Si la proxima. Yes, next week in Spanish flyer three soon. Ciao. Ciao, ciao. So don't forget everyone to follow Dani at @notlostjustdiscovering on Instagram and to visit her new website notlostjustdiscovering.com. This was Episode Three of Exploring Responsibly. I'm Gabaccia, your host and I want to thank you all for being here today. Thank you so much.